• AMD könnte natürlich noch eine neue Frontier Edition nachschieben, aber ich gehe schon bei der VII eher von schlechter Verfügbarkeit aus. Eine mögliche Theorie eines Nutzer aus dem 3DC: NV hat mit den hohen Preisen für Turing die VII erst in den Bereich des möglichen geschoben. Nicht ganz von der Hand zu weißen, Vega 20 dürfte sehr teuer sein und schleppt viel "HPC" Ballast mit.

    Die 128 ROPs sind btw. noch nicht bestätigt.

  • I am going to wait until Sapphire releases their Nitro Radeon VII Limited Edition and take one of those instead :)
    Thereby Sapphire will fix all the flaws it has and perfect the actual design, as they have done with Nitro RX Vega 64 Limited Edition 1.0 & 2.0

  • Vielleicht bringt MSI ja eine High Airflow Bracket Version mit Radiallüfter auf den Markt, so wie bei der Vega 56/64. Dann überlege ich's mir vielleicht, aber ich glaube ich werd's wohl doch überspringen, die VII, um auf eine High-End Navi zu warten.

    Löschzwerg: Bin gespannt (In Bezug auf die Rasterizer)!


    Maybe MSI will release a high airflow bracket version using a radial fan, like they did with the Vega 56/64. In such a case, I might consider the card, but I still think it more likely, that I'll skip the VII and wait for a high-end Navi.

    Löschzwerg: Curiosity's piqued (about the rasterizers)!

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  • I am going to wait until Sapphire releases their Nitro Radeon VII Limited Edition and take one of those instead :)
    Thereby Sapphire will fix all the flaws it has and perfect the actual design, as they have done with Nitro RX Vega 64 Limited Edition 1.0 & 2.0

    Me too, waiting for a custom release (Sapphire would be perfect).

  • Ich habe eine Asus Strix OC Vega 64 da, die ist recht leise, entgegensatz zu meiner R9 290X Referenzdesign ?

    Der Wasserkühler liegt aber schon hier, der Umbau wird in den nächsten Tagen durchgeführt.

    Von der Leistung her reicht sie mir aus und wird auf jedenfall bleiben, bis Navi heraus kommt.

    MfG

    Zombieeee

  • Dachte ich mir fast, daß die 128 nicht stimmen würden. Hmm, ob der schnelle VRAM bei VSR irgendwas hilft? Meine Vega 64 ist da ja schon recht fest am Absaufen, wenn ich von 3840×2400 downsamplen lasse.

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  • Radeon VII aka Vega II has the following specs GAT :)

    3840 GCN 5.1 Cores
    240 TMU's
    64 ROPS
    60 CU's
    16GB 4096Bit Quad Stack HBM2

    Go here for details of the Vega 20 GPU of the Radeon VII:
    https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-vii.c3358

    Here the Radeon Instinct MI60 to give you the specs of a fully fledged Vega 20 GPU:

    https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/rade…inct-mi60.c3233

    There is going to be a fully fledged version of the Vega 20 GPU which will either be a water cooled card a limited edition or maybe even a separate release as in Radeon VII +
    No idea on the name but something like that is going to happen.

    Once the drivers get mature the Radeon VII will at least be 40 to 50% faster than Vega 64 and 25 to 30% faster than RTX 2080 easily, do keep in mind the drivers used to test it on that preview were alpha drivers so this card has way more potential to give.
    Here the results of what these alpha drivers did for the Radeon VII aka Vega II
    https://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-…-VII-Benchmarks

    Fallout 76 shows a performance boost of 68% that is pretty insane, imagine if all games were fully optimized with an optimized driver set for this card, trust me you will see even larger gains...


    Currently Vega 56's & Vega 64's are beating GTX 1080's in most game titles all thanks to proper driver optimization, as you can see here:
    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gigaby…iew,5441-3.html

    It has improved over time, here an other review shows different numbers due to the different games being tested:
    https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit…benchmarks-7001

    The constant flow of driver updates have surely smoothed out most issues.
    The Vega 64 I use now is the best Vega 64 on the market even out besting the Vega 64 LC, it's this one:

    Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX Vega 64 Limited Edition 2.0 PCI-E 8GB 2048 bit HBM2:

    the 2.0 has 2x 8 pins instead of 3x 8 pins for power feed and it's GPU speed is 1630Mhz instead of 1611 Mhz.

    So it does have slight improvements here and there, it's the card Tweaktown had a sneak preview of:

    Here the card in my system:



    So far it runs better than the EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2 I had before it thanks to driver improvements in some Vulkan games I have here it's about 27% faster, on other games it's about 15% faster overall not too shabby for a Vega 64 :)
    Here a detailed review of my card, well the older LE 1.0 card with 3x 8 pins for power feed:
    https://www.pcworld.com/article/324300…ffpG1-WEP_3JyII

    "If you’re willing to spend the money to achieve high-end Radeon ecosystem nirvana, then the astonishingly cool, impressively quiet Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 64 Limited Edition will give you the best Vega 64 experience possible. It’s much better than the liquid-cooled Vega 64."

    7 Mal editiert, zuletzt von Gold Leader (14. Januar 2019 um 10:42)

  • Es spielt einfach keine Rolle (die Sapphire Karte meine ich), da ich eine Rear Exhaust Lösung brauche. Ich kann's mir einfach nicht leisten, die Hitze der Grafikkarte in's Gehäuse zu entlassen. Die IR Strahlung der Karte ist schon schlimm genug. Wenn ich dem noch einen Haufen heißer Luft hinzufüge, dann macht das Probleme für's System.

    Du wirst dich wahrscheinlich nicht erinnern, aber so schaut meine Spiele-Schuhschachtel aus:

    <Bilder im Englischen Teil unten / Pictures in the English part below>

    Zusätzlich dazu lasse ich meine Vega mit +50% power target und -50mV(GPU) laufen, was in einem Energieverbrauch von 240-290W resultiert, je nach Spieleengine und -szene. Manchmal schwappt's sogar über die 300W Grenze. Der Referenzkerntakt der MSI liegt bei 1667MHz. 334W ist hier der Gipfel, der sich mit Tools wie Furmark erreichen läßt, aber Spiele lasten die Karte natürlich nicht soweit aus.

    In dem Kontext brauche ich jedenfalls unbedingt reines Rear Exhaust, oder die Maschine wird von innen heraus zu Tode gekocht, speziell wenn ich Mal 4-5 Stunden spiele. Nach so einer Session ist der ganze Würfel schließlich eh schon gut heiß, durch und durch. Also "gut durch" würde ich's Mal nennen. ;)

    Was das beste für ATX/E-TX ist, muß nicht auch das Beste für Mini-ITX sein. ;) Die Kiste verwende ich auch für LANs, wo die geringe Größe wirklich hilft.


    It simply doesn't matter (the Sapphire card I mean), as I need a rear exhaust solution. I can not afford the card exhausting its heat into the PC case, because the IR radiation of the card is bad enough already. Adding a ton of hot air on top of that would create a lot of thermal issues for my system.

    You'll likely not remember it, but here's what my gaming shoebox looks like:

           

    AMD Ryzen 5 1600X + MSI Radeon RX Vega 64 Airboost version (Klicken zum Vergrößern / click to enlarge)

    Also, I'm running the Vega 64 at a +50% power target with -50mV(GPU), which makes it consume 240-290W of power depending on the engine and ingame scene. Sometimes it even surges over the 300W line. The reference GPU clock speed of that MSI card sits at 1667MHz. 334W is the total power consumption achievable in tools like FurMark, but games won't push the card this far of course. After such a session the whole box is already quite hot through and through though. I'd call it "well done". ;)

    In that context, I simply require a pure rear exhaust cooling solution, or the machine'll cook itself to death from the inside, especially when playing games for like 4-5 hours.

    What's best for ATX/E-ATX doesn't have to be the best for Mini-ITX. ;) The machine is also used for LAN parties, where its small size really helps.

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  • Yes of course, I get that, I can truly understand why you went for the blower design, all due to your compact and cramped case design, a blower design makes most sense.

    Yet for my Lian Li TYR PC-X2000B the Sapphire Nitro RX Vega 64 Limited Edition 2.0 was the best solution

    Thanks to Vapor-X chamber cooling my GPU doesn't exceed 55C at max load, my GPU runs currently at 1630Mhz max OC is 1760Mhz, with those speeds beating a 1080 Ti / RTX 2080 is a like a milk run.


    But since everything I do runs fine to what I want it to do, I never bothered.
    my card has a hand picked GPU which is best of batch and a fully redesigned PCB makes the Nitro LE 2.0 the best Vega 64 on the market, good airflow will push the hot air out of the case anyways.

    And you enjoying Vega 64 so far?
    .

  • Najo, du hast ein fettes Case mit genug Platz und Durchzug, da ist die Wahl offenkundig. ;)

    Meine bisherige Erfahrung war "gemischt". Wobei auch die weniger guten Teile irgendwie Spaß machen, warum auch immer. ;) Mit der Standardlüfterkurve (und dem irre aufgeblasenen Power Target) ist die Vega lärmtechnisch schlimmer als eine GTX 480 Fermi. Sie is wirklich, wirklich HEIß und wirklich, wirklich LAUT!. ;)

    Die Leistung ist natürlich nicht direkt schlecht, aber mehr wäre gut, sodaß ich mehr Spiele mit VSR / Downsampling spielen könnte (3840×2400 virtuelle Auflösung =zu=> 2560×1600 nativer Auflösung). Aber diese Auflösung ist ein bißchen viel für die Karte, und die Downsamplingalgorithmen selbst (die mich an Lanczos3 Filter erinnern, auch wenn ich mir beim Algorithmus natürlich nicht sicher sein kann) kosten scheinbar noch etwas Leistung zusätzlich.

    Ich denke der größte Spaßgewinn resultiert einfach daraus, nach knapp 20 Jahren "fast nur Intel & nVidia" endlich Mal mit was anderem rumzuspielen. Es wurde schon echt langweilig.


    Well, you have a hugeass case with enough space and ventilation, so the choice is obvious. ;)

    In my case the experience can be described as "mixed". Although even the bad parts are strangely fun for some reason. ;) With the default fan curve (and the insanely maxed power target) the Vega 64 in its rear exhaust design sounds worse than a GTX 480 Fermi card. It's really, really HOT and really, really LOUD! ;)

    Performance isn't bad of course, but I could do with more, so I could run more games with VSR / downsampling active (3840×2400 virtual res =down to=> 2560×1600 native res). But that resolution is a bit much for the card, plus the downsampling algorithms themselves (which do remind me of a Lanczos3 filter, although I can't be sure about the algorithm being used of course) seem to cost extra performance.

    I think the part that is the most fun is simply that I can finally fool around with something new after almost 20 years of purely using Intel & nVidia. It's really started to bore me.

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  • Hmm I can understand that tbh :)
    I too ran NV for years, Quad SLI EVGA GTX 295 RE's, 2-Way SLI EVGA GTX 480's 580 SC 1.5GB's, 680 SC Sig 2GB's and the EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2.

    It's that I missed my Radeon's tbh, yet mainly their image quality was so important to me as well as drivers, they are really well made.

    The AMD Driver cleaner and DDU in combination, after that reboot and install your new drivers, after reboot and done it's much less work as well.

    NV gave me serious driver issues my 1080 camped with the black screen of Death issue as well during bootup and when surfing the web, if I'd use drivers older than 384.94 it would not happen but every driver after it I'd get it again, it was really driver based and not hardware based.
    This is the error message I would get after the black screens:


    Fact is I won't accept such continuous issues for a card of 680 euros .... The EVGA 1080 FTW2 I had, I had about 1 year and camped with these issues for about 5 months, then I just sold it to someone else simply I was done with NV's careless customer service and low quality drivers.

    The moment I went AMD Radeons all my issues were gone everything just works without any fuss'n about.
    And I know AMD's drivers can be buggy as well, but I just make proper bug reports and they always get back to me with useful solutions.

    I mostly game at AMD VSR 2560x1600 now my native reso is 1920x1200, I use a HP ZR24w 24" 16:10 HS-IPS panel.
    3840x2400x32 I mainly sue for DXX-Rebirth with Descent 1 & 2.

    Games that use UE4 & Froistbite run great at 2400p with VSR games that use Unity & CryEngine are fine at 1600p well from my end anyway.
    Radeon VII aka Vega II should make 2400p more doable I am thinking.

  • Ich bin schon gespannt welchen Einfluß das hochgerüstete Speicherinterface auf VSR haben wird. Ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob's viel helfen wird, aber ich hoffe Mal, daß die Launchreviews auch VSR Benchmarks dabei haben werden, inkl. Vergleiche mit der RX Vega 64.


    I'm looking forward to the impact the buffed memory interface will have on VSR. I'm not sure if it'll help much, but I do hope that there will be VSR benchmarks for the launch reviews when it's time, including comparisons with the RX Vega 64.

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  • Hmm yeah that would be very welcoming actually :)
    if using Win 10 or Server 2016 you should try out HBCC aka High Bandwidth Cache Control this can really up your performance as well when using Vega based GPU's.

  • Ajo, das Feature kannte ich noch nicht. Jop, meine Spielebox hat Windows 10 drauf. Aber es schaut so aus, als würde dieses Feature nur Sinn machen, wenn einem wirklich der Texturspeicher im VRAM ausgeht. Ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob mir so ein Szenario überhaupt schon begegnet ist, auch bei Einsatz von VSR. Ich meine, so wenig sind 8GiB jetzt auch nicht.


    I see, didn't know about that feature. Yes, my gaming box runs Windows 10. But it seems this feature makes sense only when actually running out of texture memory in VRAM. I'm not actually sure whether I've encountered such a scenario even with VSR. I mean, 8GiB isn't that small after all.

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  • 8GB is small when dealing with 4K & 5K reso's textures can fill up quite rapidly especially when taking use of VSR, the GPU takes use of supersampeling to simulate the higher reso your monitor actually doesn't support nativily.

    NVIDIA has a similar dea they use DSR meaning Display Super Resolution, works very similar yet they lack HBCC.
    Vega 64 also uses an updated version of HSR what is referred to Hidden Shader Removal. some of you Voodoo5 users would know exactly what I mean on how this works, it only renders on what you see, everything under the map is left out, thereby saving lots of performance for other things.

    Vega is very underestimated and undiscovered imo, it's design is quite unique from everything else, even it's a lot like how Fiji worked the chip that was used for the R9 Fury series.

    Here a nice test explaining what happens when you take use of HBCC with a RX Vega 64 8GB HBM2:
    https://techgage.com/article/a-look-at-amd-radeon-vega-hbcc/


    this video shows ho much VRAM is actually used with & without HBCC:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMOGNYKqhN8


    Rx Vega 64 OC specs:

    HBCC ON @ 12GB Vram
    +20% Power Limit
    Default Core Clocks
    +85 MHz to HBM2 Samsung Memory
    No Undervolt

    Windows 10 Home 64 Bit
    i7 7700k@4500Mhz
    Corsair 16GB DDR4@3000Mhz
    Asus Prime Z270-A
    Samsung 960 Evo 250GB & 1TB
    2x Samsung 850 Evo 500GB
    EVGA 750 G2 Power Supply
    Radeon Software 17.10.1

    So cool we have the same GPU now hah :topmodel:

    3 Mal editiert, zuletzt von Gold Leader (15. Januar 2019 um 09:53)

  • Ich bezweifle nicht, daß man irgenwie über die 8GiB hinausschießen kann, was ich bezweifle ist, daß das bei mir passiert, mit meinen Spielen, bei meiner Auflösung. Ich nutze nicht Mal 4K/UHD, and wenn ich eine hohe Auflösung mit VSR nutze, würde ich sowieso kein MSAA mehr einschalten. Weil mein einziger Grund für die Nutzung von VSR ist die Situation wo MSAA nicht funktioniert und wo FXAA/SMAA usw. einfach sucken.

    Ich würde nie 3840×2400 VSR mit 8×MSAA fahren, der Leistungsverlust wäre einfach grausam, egal ob mit oder ohne HBCC, weil die GPU das bei einer modernen, aufwendigen Engine eh nicht packt.

    Oder, in anderen Worten: Bevor mir der VRAM ausgeht, geht mir eh schon GPU Leistung aus glaube ich Mal, wo ich mir Sachen wie VSR eh nicht mehr leisten kann. So gesehen z.B. in The Witcher 3. Bei dem geht mir der Grafikspeicher auch noch nicht aus - aber die GPU ist einfach zu lahm um das Spiel bei 3840×2400 VSR anzutreiben.

    Ich mein, sag niemals nie, vielleict treffe ich Mal auf ein Spiel wo die VRAM Kapazität ein Problem darstellt, anstatt der GPU Leistung. Aber bisher hatte ich das ned.


    I'm not doubting that you can somehow exceed the 8GiB limit, what I'm doubting is that it'd happen in my case, with my games at my resolution. I'm not even running 4K/UHD, and if I do run a high resolution via VSR I wouldn't use MSAA anymore anyway. Because my only reason for using VSR is for when MSAA doesn't work, and FXAA/SMAA etc. just suck.

    I would never run 3840×2400 VSR with 8×MSAA for instance, as the performance impact would be horrible either way, so w. or wo. HBCC, because the GPU would be too slow to do that in a sophisticated, modern engine.

    Or, in other words: Before I'm running out of VRAM, I think I'd be running out of GPU power, where I can't afford VSR anymore anyway. Like seen in The Witcher 3. Here, I'm not running out of graphics memory yet - but the GPU is simply too slow to drive the game at 3840×2400 VSR.

    I mean, never say never, maybe I'll encounter a game where the VRAM capacity becomes the limiting factor instead of the GPUs' performance. But that hasn't happened so far.

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  • Ah right well I can understand :)
    Mostly I take use of AMD VSR 2560x1600 every game I run and so far it Vega 64 does considerably well with everything maxed out, via ingame settings of course.

    Here some screenshots I took of the games I am currently playing

    VSR 2560x1600x32:

    Borderlands 2:



    Just Cause 3:

    Beasts of Bermuda:



    Overload:



    VSR 3840x2400x32 only these so far:

    Beasts of Bermuda:



    Descent 1 with DXX-Rebirth 0.58.1 + D1X Retro 1.3

    Descent2 with DXX-Rebirth 0.58.1 + D2X Retro 1.3a

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Gold Leader (15. Januar 2019 um 12:39)

  • Ich schätze bei so alten Spielen oder deren Portierungen (wie Descent / Descent II) wäre ich wohl zu faul, überhaupt am KVM auf meine Spielemaschine umzuschalten. Die würde ich wohl einfach weiterhin auf XP x64 mit der GTX Titan Black spielen. :) Einfach weil faul.


    Well, I guess for such old games or rather their ports (like Descent / Descent II), I'd probably not care for KVM-switching to my game machine and just keep playing on my XP x64 workstation and its GTX Titan Black. :) Just because lazy.

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