there is no Greed, there is only demand and offer.
There are to little Cards on the Market, there are to little cards for everyone who want one.
So why not build more?
And no there are many other Projekts too, Backfire makes a realy good Job. But this is a Thread for Anthony's Work, go to Backfire's Thread when you want to read what he does. This is not a messenger, where you write about everything alltime.
Alles anzeigen@GoldLeader,
The price is more then Fair!
let me do a little (fully incorrect) Calculation:
150 -200 Euro PCB
50 Euro 4 GPUs
160 - 200 Euro Memory (16 Chips)
150 - 300 Euro the other Parts (plx, Caps, etc)
500 Euro 20h/25 Euro Building / Testing the Card (if that is enough I dont know where you live, here in Germany you would get payed much more for that kind of work)
1250 - 1300 Euro Building one Card alone without the Engineering, Prototyping etc.
no, it is calculating in a different manner. main point is: price must be at least 2.5 times more than a production cost. i can elaborate if you interested.
what i have to say. at this time i have only 2 assembled boards. both of them performs quite well on my opinion. at this week i'll send one board to a independed tester. maybe he'll say that board is trash, so nothing to talk about no more. let's wait a little.
It would be interesting but you dont need to 
I believe it'll mostly be related to research & development? Manhours aren't free stuff that grows on trees after all, it's actual lifetime invested. But anyways, I'd be interested in how you've arrived at a relatively static factor of 2.5× as the lower bound. I'm thinking.. there's gotta be a whole lot of manhours running into this after all.. And you don't seem to be the kind of person who's manhours come especially cheap, given your skill level. 
Please do elaborate! Transparency is always a good thing.
alright, take a seat for a 26mins. the economics of selling hardware:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwrkfHadeQQ&t=309s
then, take alooks at the comments
Very interesting, just finished it. Though I must say, your card is one of those "very different" projects he speaks of, and I doubt you'd want to sell via a distribution chain given the low volume of cards you're likely going to produce. That's especially true when giving chip availability a quick thought; VSA-100's aren't going to be available at a significant number I suppose, and they probably aren't right now? Thus, you're not even remotely going to come close to a batch of a 1000 units, just my assumption of course.
I allow myself to further assume that it just comes down to bill of materials, transport logistics (very smart of him to mention that), manufacturing, your own hourly wages (R&D, testing, administration, support) as well as failure rates & RMA. Taxes I suppose, if it's going to be an official business (at wich point I'd be a bit wary of nVidia shitting on your cake, so branding should be considered wisely).
Naturally, if you do everything yourself, you'd need to invest a LOT more time into the whole thing (and it'd be mostly mundane and boring tasks), but given the supposedly low volume we're dealing with here, it'd probably be fine to not rely on additional parties? No?
*Mind you, I've never been into this business, so I may be overlooking quite a few things here.
Alles anzeigenAlles anzeigen@GoldLeader,
The price is more then Fair!
let me do a little (fully incorrect) Calculation:
150 -200 Euro PCB
50 Euro 4 GPUs
160 - 200 Euro Memory (16 Chips)
150 - 300 Euro the other Parts (plx, Caps, etc)
500 Euro 20h/25 Euro Building / Testing the Card (if that is enough I dont know where you live, here in Germany you would get payed much more for that kind of work)
1250 - 1300 Euro Building one Card alone without the Engineering, Prototyping etc.
no, it is calculating in a different manner. main point is: price must be at least 2.5 times more than a production cost. i can elaborate if you interested.
what i have to say. at this time i have only 2 assembled boards. both of them performs quite well on my opinion. at this week i'll send one board to a independed tester. maybe he'll say that board is trash, so nothing to talk about no more. let's wait a little.
Aah okay kind of got confused for a little there my bad then I just hope all turns out well then, just a very bad memory of a bad experience surfaced I Just care for all 3dfx people and not just the elusive ones. for me 1500 Eur is too much but it's fine to agree to disagree on certain terms.
Bier.jpg
The original Voodoo5 6000 was 800 a 1000 USD at some point depending on what revision you went for.
This was back in 2005 a 2006.
This value could of just remained and everyone could of bought one for much lesser troubles.
there is really no need to increase it in value of such a card, or any kind of original 3dfx card.
That all comes down to me as incorrect capitalism aka greed.
Anthony's card is indeed an other case he has to build it up from the ground up and agreed I was wrong on what it would actually cost, that video actually did help em explain it a bit more, more or less, that was understandable to a certain degree, which I do respect.
Now if the value of the originals would drop, that would be great for everyone, that is all I care about most, that 3dfx is fun and affordable for everyone, no matter the card type.
if one doesn't agree with any of you they are all of a sudden a MAJOR THREAT aka a RED DOT TARGET, but that is not how the world works, you can't like everything, you can't agree with everything either, but the opposite just the same.
I won't reply on the other points as we are saying the same thing over and over again.
But on that point I have to say it is simply not true. If you check other threads over here you will find, that we disagree on many topics, but no one is getting 'targeted' or bullied for his different opinion. For me this is the big plus of this forum as no matter how hard you discuss in the end you could still have a beer with everyone. At least I would do :).
if one doesn't agree with any of you they are all of a sudden a MAJOR THREAT aka a RED DOT TARGET, but that is not how the world works, you can't like everything, you can't agree with everything either, but the opposite just the same.I won't reply on the other points as we are saying the same thing over and over again.
But on that point I have to say it is simply not true. If you check other threads over here you will find, that we disagree on many topics, but no one is getting 'targeted' or bullied for his different opinion. For me this is the big plus of this forum as no matter how hard you discuss in the end you could still have a beer with everyone. At least I would do :).
I have a bad history you you especially, I don't think I have to explain myself here again...or others would have to, don't do as if you never targeted me here, I don't want to look up the evidence and repost all the screenshots here it might fill up the entire page, you never even admitted it, left alone apologized, I am always the one apologizing in the end, it's a gift not everyone can share.
So please don't get me started.
In 2006 the V5 Cards were some old Cards that little people wanted. Like a HD 6870 ore something like that. Yeah you can use it for 3d, but not for our new games. Hey i have upgraded my Grafik Card do you want my old one? I think you could buy a V5 5500 @ 30 Euro or something like that.
There were Tons of Cards on the Market. People have played the Games on their old Systems / Daddys old Computer or something like that. With 15 they got the Voodoo, with 21 they got thier first own money hey letz build a fast system. X1950XTX ...
Now these People are 35, hey i want to play my old Games again.
There was no market at that Time. Some people wanted a Card, they got a Card. 5 Cards on Market, 4 People who want. ---> 800 euro for a Prototype done.
Today there are many people who have some Money and want a Card.
I want a Card since 2008 / 2009 When the lan Time started for me, but i had no Money. Job training, Crappy etc. Now i have the Money.
There are about 70 to 80 working V5 6000 out there.
Most People who have Cards, have got them to Game / Collect.
Why sell a rare card, you will never get your hands again on?
Why sell a rare card, you had have a hard time finding?
There is no reason like hey i got a faster card.
So they sell because:
They need Money to feed the Family / Repair the house / get a car to ride to the Job.
I think moste of them sell, because they need the Money.
There are people who gets a Car because somebody dies who has a Card.
They dont Care who gets the Card, they dont know / want to know what is it, they don't care about the Community.
If i find a rare Picasso, i dont Care i dont need it i dont want it ---> sell at max price, get me something other nice.
there is minimum one person who buys/sell the Card for Profit yes. But hey he don't make the Prices.
Today we have many people who wants a Card.
When i need Money to feed my Family, and have no other option then to sell the Card, why would i sell it for 1000 Euro if i could get 2000?
1000 euros would be respectful 2000 Euros is greed simply put and I don't support those that are out there to be greedy.
It's over valuing something for what it should be valued for, now people ask 3500+ eur for a card that should have a value of 1000 Euros and no more, Greed leads the mind of these mindless humans and nothing else.
you'd be just as wrong in that position, I bought a R900 Antilles Pre-Production sample from a kind ebayer from Belgium he asked 120 euros for it but after I told him my passion for graphics card and the knowledge I had of this particular card He told me I only had to pay the shipping and nothing else he considered it a a gift, even I would of gladly paid him 120 euros because in reality that is still a good deal.
Not everyone has greed and not everyone has the need to be like that, people that have good jobs or great wealth they only want more and more coin and such kind I won't aid as they are too rich and too greedy to take care on only them self.
When I bought the Voodoo5 5000 PCI for 1000 euros I sold it to Rolo01 for that same 1000 Euros even I wanted only 460 for it because at some point it didn't feel right, but Rolo01 said what you paid for it was too much so I too will pay you that in regard, anyways I have my own methods and ripping people off will never be my method because it is wrong it's the path of the Dark Side and nothing else.
Most of you won't ever understand my ways of seeing this your greed is running your weak spoiled minds and nothing else and my best cure is to avoid.
So yea poor families. no man, that ain't gonna work, just an other lame excuse, it's the purest of greed and nothing else, nobody cares about the technology or the cards them self, but only the coin one can get from the cards, that is all what I have been seeing over the years, the prices got more and more stupid and I See nothing but rich people buy these cards and reselling them for even stupendous amounts.
Back in 2002 to 2007 it was more about the hardware, now it's all about money and nothing else, extremely depriving to the least, this is the one reason most old collectors can't afford even a simple Voodoo5 5500 AGP for example, 40 a 50 euros was normal for these and that is where they should of remained, you don't need to ask more for something so common and so simple.
It's only that you want to, it's that addiction of greed that is fueling your mind that is the actual reality.
Yet I don't see many admit that
I dont know why they sell. but i dont think its Greed only.
What you (@Bier) say rings true. That's why I sold one of my 6000's for a ridiculous price. To get out of financial trouble. That's not greed, it's survival. It's also why I won't sell my remaining one; Because I'm no longer in such a situation.
Anyway, Anthony has made his case, and while I think that there may be room for optimization (though I cannot prove it, I just assume it) in terms of price, it's surely not outlandish or anything. If you think so, you may wish to reconsider what you know about the implications of building something like this. I sure had to, it seems.
At that skill level he might even be able to charge 100-150€ per hour, before tax. It's an estimate, but I think it's not too far off reality. If he were to invest a 100 manhours (I doubt that's remotely enough), that'd put mere HR cost before tax at 10.000-15.000€ already, given my wage assumption is in the right ballpark (which I believe it should be), so yeah.... That's already 10 cards worth of cash. And we haven't even counted in things like manufacturing costs or bill of materials.
So - just my gut feeling - it doesn't seem too unfair or anything. If you still can't afford it - water under the bridge, man. I can't go ahead and buy no Lamborghini either. Or a rare Picasso, to pick up on what Bier.jpg said. Not that I'm interested in Picasso, I'm more of a fan of Impressionism, as dreamy as it may sound.
I dont know why they sell. but i dont think its Greed only.
I greatly doubt that for the most of it it's mostly the same type of people that ask for stupendous amounts it made they very wealthy toa very large degree.
But anyways it's not my problem for the least I try to tackle such things anywhere I can so members of my communities can happily avoid such type of people, to get the old values back is what most people want so they can enjoy the cards such as you lot already are enjoying yours.
I only have a Voodoo3 3500 TV AGP but it's enough for me I would like a 5500 AGP but not for the amount they are going for, I will succeed it's all a matter of time.
Patience it's a Jedi game, only Jedi will understand.
take care.
What you (@Bier) say rings true. That's why I sold one of my 6000's for a ridiculous price. To get out of financial trouble. That's not greed, it's survival. It's also why I won't sell my remaining one; Because I'm no longer in such a situation.
Anyway, Anthony has made his case, and while I think that there may be room for optimization (though I cannot prove it, I just assume it) in terms of price, it's surely not outlandish or anything. If you think so, you may wish to reconsider what you know about the implications of building something like this. I sure had to, it seems.
At that skill level he might even be able to charge 100-150€ per hour, before tax. It's an estimate, but I think it's not too far off reality. If he were to invest a 100 manhours (I doubt that's remotely enough), that'd put mere HR cost before tax at 10.000-15.000€ already, given my wage assumption is in the right ballpark (which I believe it should be), so yeah.... That's already 10 cards worth of cash. And we haven't even counted in things like manufacturing costs or bill of materials.
So - just my gut feeling - it doesn't seem too unfair or anything. If you still can't afford it - water under the bridge, man. I can't go ahead and buy no Lamborghini either. Or a rare Picasso, to pick up on what Bier.jpg said. Not that I'm interested in Picasso, I'm more of a fan of Impressionism, as dreamy as it may sound.
Oh all fine maybe an idea you should be the tester?
Might be a cool idea to get that old hardware review site of your going again, I mean I have time to test , but not sure how testing hardware would do me any good, I have experience in testing games like Ascentoid, Descent 1 &2, Websites friends made and such but hardware yea that is something else okay I beta tested drivers for x-3dfx for ATI & NVIDIA not so sure how it goes to testing engineering samples but yea.
You seem more of the guy for something like that though, Thrawn.
And a doublepost, Kansloos! (chanceless) 
@Mods: Lohnt es sich den Thread zu splitten, um dieses "Voodoos sind jetzt teuer"-Thema woanders zu behandeln? Ich persönlich finde es unfassbar schade, dass das eigentliche Thema, ein verdammtes Remake einer v56k, irgendwie untergeht.
Den ganzen Offtopic-Kram raus, bitte.
Und den Post hier dann auch am besten löschen...
Since when would you decide what happens in my topic and why the German all of a sudden a bit rude don't you think?
@Mods: Is it worth splitting the thread in order to deal with this "Voodoos are now expensive" topic elsewhere? Personally, I think it's a shame that the actual topic, a damn remake of a v56k, somehow goes under.
Get all the off-topic stuff out, please.
And then it's best to delete the post here ...Translators may not be accurate, there is no need to split things up then again my facts do remain
Don't do as if I am a fucking retard and can't understand what you are saying, I mean you asked for a less kind message so here it is, any other request my dude? 
It's not like you are ever sorry with these less kind messages of yours ... yes I remember who you are to the tiniest of details it's called photographic memory. you are messing with my PTSD.. Don't push it.
I appreciate the thought Gold Leader, but I have to respectfully refuse. I know I'm messing around with Anthony's thread here, but frankly, I doubt I'd make a good tester for several reasons (PM me, if you want to know).
There are lots of good and active users here and elsewhere whom Anthony could cooperate with in terms of reviewing and potentially promoting his card. That even includes large e-Zines. And I'm sure a lot of them have a better and more visible online presence than I do (or will ever have in the future).
Besides, quite frankly, I'm not really interested in writing a v5 6000 review, even when it's about something as amazing as what Anthony is building here. I'm past that, have done enough of it for a lifetime, let others take the cake.
hey no problem: if you think Anthonys 6000 is to expensive, just buy your 6000 from another V5 6000 dealer...
or just develope a 6000 yourself and sell it cheaper. competition stimulates business...
@Mods: Lohnt es sich den Thread zu splitten, um dieses "Voodoos sind jetzt teuer"-Thema woanders zu behandeln? Ich persönlich finde es unfassbar schade, dass das eigentliche Thema, ein verdammtes Remake einer v56k, irgendwie untergeht.
Den ganzen Offtopic-Kram raus, bitte.
Und den Post hier dann auch am besten löschen...
ja, wäre auch dafür...
hey no problem: if you think Anthonys 6000 is to expensive, just buy your 6000 from another V5 6000 dealer...
or just develope a 6000 yourself and sell it cheaper. competition stimulates business...
Or just lower the prices that can work too right But that logic doesn't work for you greedy types so there is always that isn't there lmao
