Anthony's Voodoo5 6000 remake project, Seems exciting for sure!

  • Die Frage für mich wäre ja bei welcher Lösung verschenkt man mehr. Eine Voodoo5 PCI mit 33 MHz auf Win9x betreiben oder mit 66 MHz auf Win2k?

    DerBiber Exactly! :spitze:

    The other question is: What version are we talking about?

    Special Unified Xcelerator (V5-6K New)

    ... if this last version (the first Video Card) is PCI 33/66 Mhz?

    I do not understand ...:bonk::mauer:

  • My question was meant to be kind of a summary.


    Actually the question refers to every Voodoo5 that is using the PCI interface not only Anthony's remake itself. If you agree that the increased bandwith has positive effects on the performance of the card you might want to use it on 66 MHz. In all circumstances I am aware of no consumer board would apply 66 MHz on the PCI bus regardless if the card itself is supporting the higher bus speed. So far only PCI-X ports are doing so as their bus runs seperatly from onboard devices etc.. As far as I am aware.


    The talking point about the bandwith increase while the PCI bus is making use of 66 MHz lead us to the point where the most performant OS would be Win9x.


    Unfortunately there are no boards available that would offer, single core, any or even sufficient Win9x support while offering a PCI-X port at the same time.


    So at least Win2k will be a requiered in case of an PCI-X port.


    So again the question is :) what would have the bigger impact or even none at all?


    EDIT: PCI-X = PCI64 - thanks to the Admiral

  • Mind you, there are systems with separate, regular PCI busses. E.g. my ancient server based on i450GX Orion has two; In my case, both are 32-bit 33MHz. Any board with mixed slots, like 64-bit 66MHz (not PCI-X) as well as 32-bit 33MHz slots will very likely also have two separate PCI buses. In such cases, you can use the normal ports for regular 33MHz cards without impacting the performance of the faster slots, as they would sit on a separate bus which would be hooked up to the FSB via an intermediate bridge independently. Even when connected to the same bridge chip, they can still be treated separately, if said bridge can do so.

    1-6000-banner-88x31-jpg

    Stolzer Besitzer eines 3dfx Voodoo5 6000 AGP Prototypen:

    • 3dfx Voodoo5 6000 AGP HiNT Rev.A-3700 (defekt)

    [//wp.xin.at] - No RISC, no fun!

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  • The talking point about the bandwith increase while the PCI bus is making use of 66 MHz lead us to the point where the most performant OS would be Win9x.


    Unfortunately there are no boards available that would offer, single core, any or even sufficient Win9x support while offering a PCI-X port at the same time.

    For this reason, a PCI to Agp Riser has been created, to give the possibility to exploit the potential of the Pci33 / 66mhz version to the maximum:



    For those who bought the first series, the Napalm 6000 S.U.X., which is Pci66mhz, this adapter is free, for those who buy the second series (Pci33 / 66mhz) it is sold separately, to give the possibility to make the most of the second series too. , the S.U.X.6000, on motherboards with Pci33mhz.


    With upcoming releases, we'll see if the developer brings further changes.

  • I think it does not mean any opposition to the requierments I brought up. As I assume your ancient server board has been quadro sockel 8?


    What would confirm my assumption that there are no available single core/single cpu solutions with to say at least two seprate PCI bus interfaces (no matter if two PCI32 or PCI32 + PCI64) for proper Win9x use.

  • I think it does not mean any opposition to the requierments I brought up. As I assume your ancient server board has been quadro sockel 8?


    What would confirm my assumption that there are no available single core/single cpu solutions with to say at least two seprate PCI bus interfaces (no matter if two PCI32 or PCI32 + PCI64) for proper Win9x use.

    some i850 based mobos exist with perfect win9x compatibility

  • All Mainboards I recently looked up (for example Intel 875 based, KT133, AMD761, KT333, X58 and more modern ones) have PCI Slots with the notch in the right place to use Anthonys card, so I don't see any problem there. Even my Gigabyte H470 HD3 Socket1200 Board has a PCI with the notch in the right place, so I could use this card even with my 11600KF :spitze: (I know, no legacy OS support etc, just for theoretical example).

    Not all motherboards have that, most 3dfx gamers used AGP back then as they do now.
    Why not just give it an AGP x2 connector then and use an AGP to PCI Convertor instead like the infamous Kiroutu Shikou AGP2PCI Convertor or the AGP .5 AGP2PCI Convertor?
    This would make lots more sense and it would be far less impractical.

    if going PCI use Universal PCI like 3dfx did 21 years back with their V5 PCI's for example
    Not something I will ever get on why that this was ignored :/

    All I see are excuses, meaningless & careless reasons and people actually denying they are wrong when it comes to such details, same as applying a HDMI to a 5500 AGP x4, why do that?
    It's a retro card meant for use in retro PC's, so HDMI for that part is kind of useless anyways, DVI-D would make more sense.
    you don't use a new gen monitor on a retro PC most retro gamers use CRT's or TFT's that use DVI-D.
    That never added up for me.

    it's like buying an original Jaguar F type from the 1990's and putting an Electra engine in it, what the point?
    it would make no sense.


    Such things are just bad made choices, the result from not listening to those that actually have proper knowledge and that actually care what is best for a retro card remake, it's like diving in to a deep pool not knowing what is down there, but just going in anyways having with a dead brain.

    If a developer fails to admit their mistakes they are a bad developer, won't matter who it is, this is just a fact.
    A proper retro remake should work like an original, but contain fixes the originals lacked, but putting ultra modern parts in a retro design just is senseless and a waste of resources.

    In the end I wish you luck with this project, many things you have done were amazing so as that goes it's not all that bad but I won't deny the mistakes that were made in the end.


    Feel free to rage at me it will have no effect, you'd be wasting your time anyway.

  • The original Voodoo5 6000 never needed this device, it has AGP at the get go like all Voodoo5 6000 4x1 models have.
    For those that wanted to user their 6K in a PCI slot which was a rare case, there were the Kiroutu Shikou AGP2PCI Convertor cards and the later AGP .5 AGP2PCI cards designed by ps47 & dborca from the Italian 3dfx community 3dfxzone.it, also something I helped test in private for them.

    That way having AGP, such devices was never of need, riser cards aren't always the solution when 90% of the V56K users used the AGP port instead.


  • Feel free to rage at me it will have no effect, you'd be wasting your time anyway.

    oh no, not that again. i lost count of these blames.

    Again you are ignoring the mistakes you made in your designs, a good developer would at least take note from critics they get from things they make even if it's a software programmer to a hardware engineer, but again you are denying your wrongs.


    Normally when someone gives you critics, you can try to see what you did wrong and improve your designs in that sense and actually take note from it, instead you act as if no one said a thing and ignore it, it's what I am seeing.

    The good news, I am not the only one that knows this :)

  • I kindly ask both of you not to quote me wrong.


    I am not raging at anyone or want to be some kind of "rage target".


    Thanks.

    Oh it wasn't aimed at you, it's just one of those things when a developer makes something and it has bugs or mistakes it's as if no one is aloud to say anything about it, a good developer will tune in and try to take note of it and come up with an improvement or better solution., than just denying it.

    Anthony's cards are amazing but they have flaws and all I am seeing is that he is denying these flaws, a good developer or design would never do that, which I find strange behavior making this entire project a waste of time and resources.

    it will eventually die off all because critics people give are plainly being ignored, stubbornness is never a good solution, the designs are crippled to that degree.

  • Maybe a stupid question, but would it be possible to build a card like this with the Chips in a 2x2 Pattern? Does anyone know, why 3Dfx dumped the 2x2 Design?

    this was at the time too complex to get working two 2x2 cards were made and only one survived this card is owned by my friend omega_supreme, here his 2x2 Comdex board with his Rev.A0 0700, the first working Voodoo5 6000 AGP 128MB which ran at cores/mem 100Mhz.


    Anthony didn't choose this design for the similar reasons.

    That kind of layout is much more expensive in pcb production, that's why no such working prototypes exist. 3dfx picked most cost-effective design for 4-chip board



    Technically 2x2 design was actually too complex for it's time, it wasn't possible, the 4x 1 model was possible so they went with that instead.

  • Gold Leader

    The new Revision of his design has an universal PCI Connector, have a look here: https://www.voodooalert.de/board/forum/index.php?thread/24968-special-unified-xcelerator-v5-6k-new/&postID=475210#post475210


    So the developer improved the card the right way I think.


    PCI is the better choice over AGP in my opinion, you have lots more options and the card is designed as secondary card, so PCI absolutely makes sense to me. You can use it besides another AGP card or PCI Express card or for itself alone.

  • Well why couldn't he give me that simple reply that he already did, it would of saved up a lot of troubles and unwanted confusions.
    Sometimes the simplest thing can be extremely complex for some and that is a shame.

    I don't see the point in using a retro card in a new gen system, not really date correct and if using the card for classic Glide games a new gen system won't offer you the support the retro hardware will have in advance, just use your Radeon or GeForce and use them instead, this card would forma massive bottlekneck in new gen systems.

    I just don't agree with some of the choices that were made, everyone has the the right to agree or disagree with such things.
    it's called having a conversation.

    As a game tester for Ascentroid these days, critics make games better, game developers will tune in and try to fix the mistakes made and make improvements, I am not really seeing much of that here to be all so honest, so for me this project will die down fast.

    Sorry for replying to you like that earlier it was not aimed at you at all, so no worries there man :) <3