Anthony's 6K rebuild off Topic ^^

  • Hye all

    Dunno what to think of this if you already have an original Voodoo 5 6000 please keep them and just stick to those, this so called reverse engineered

    Voodoo5 6000 PCI 128MB by Anthony surely doe not seem like a major improvement over the 6K's we all know today.


    technical Content still left in the Tread


    But anyways enjoy the thread and please post your opinions here as well the price will be around 1500 USD from what I got from a member at x-3dfx.
    If that is true I would suggest no more than 600 a 700 USD /Euro simply because this is not even an original and you won't be better off either.

    They say all drivers work but so far they is nothing actually proving that either, hard to pay so much for something you barely have an idea of how it will work in the first place.
    A bit sketchy, but still an interesting item to discuss.

    Here the 3dfx Voodoo5 6000 I had back in 2005 to 2009:

    3dfx Voodoo5 6000 AGP 128MB Rev.A 3700 + Late Voodoo Volts, Internal Power Hookup by Gary Donovan & PCI_Re-work by ex-3dfx Engineer Sir Hank Semenec.


    The original Voodoo5 6000 has more elegance and would be more of the real deal to me even though I have a feeling other Voodoo5 6000 owners would feel in a similar way :)

  • thank you for your non-indifference and passion

    Well I was being honest actually,I really don't see many improvements no PCI 2.3 Universal, all the V5 PCI's had that not sure why you left that out?
    No DVI either, DVI would be nice for high end CRT's & Flat panels, there does seem some space at that end of the card, the power section does seem greatly improved it's not all bad but critics are aloud hence my post.

    Some valid proof of the car d running stable would be nice how stable does it actually run? That would give some better clarity.
    Are there any ways of proving that?

    1500 USD is a large sum for someone to pay left alone of having no actual indication of how stable it runs and what drivers work and what don't left alone what mainboards work with it and what don't.

    All in all some clarity would be nice, so far there isn't much to go by.

    p.s. as how you word thank you for your non-indifference and passion I better hope that wasn't an insult :/

    FYI I have anxiety, autism & dyslexia I misread people easily, for all I know it didn't read and kind, since I don't even know you, hard for me to trust someone I don't even know or left alone to understand them and what their intentions are.... ?(

  • Oh okay that makes good sense then :)

    if it's not 3dfx i prefer ATi & AMD Radeons, never liked GeForce xD

    Also I relabeled the thread's name, this is after all an exciting project none the less :)

    DVI Should work actually, if a 5500 PCI Mac can use it:


    Even so I am sure a 4-way SLI card can as well, the technology isn't different, just double the graphics chips, the reason 3dfx never applied a DVI for their Voodoo5 6000 was simply no room to add it on it's PCB, Silicon Image chips were used for the DVI's on the Napalm Macintosh boards.

  • I remember hearing Gary Tarolli say something along the lines of "some [fans] are even rebuilding the cards!" in the 3dfx founders interview of the Computer History Museum, and I was like.. "Haha no man, we're not, nobody here is THAT good..."


    Uhm... yeah. Well...


    Guess reality caught up with Mr. Tarolli's statements from a few years back. ;) Or rather, Anthony has. ;) Something like this would've simply been unthinkable a few years ago.


    Anyway, I'm all for it!


    Might need to be a bit picky about mainboards of choice (to get 66MHz out of the bus system), but that shouldn't be too much of a hurdle, I guess one can find some SuperMicro's with PCI-X or just a separate 66MHz PCI bus system on them.


    If you do start selling them though, I would personally like to see a transparent statement of cost (parts, manufacturing, manhours with hourly wages specified), and ultimately your profit margin. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind you making a profit here, that's perfectly fine, maybe in the 20-30% ranges or so, just my personal opinion. It would just be good for us to actually see the costs visualized so that we get an idea what it actually takes to so something like that, apart from knowledge and skill.


    Thanks!

    1-6000-banner-88x31-jpg

    Stolzer Besitzer eines 3dfx Voodoo5 6000 AGP Prototypen:

    • 3dfx Voodoo5 6000 AGP HiNT Rev.A-3700 (defekt)

    [//wp.xin.at] - No RISC, no fun!

    QotY: Girls Love, BEST Love; 2018 - Lo and behold, for it is the third Coming; The third great Year of Yuri, citric as it may be! Edit: 2019 wasn't too bad either... Edit: 2020... holy crap, we're on a roll here~♡!

    Quote Bier.jpg@IRC 2020: "Je schlimmer der Fetisch, desto besser!"

  • Wow, that's just awesome work. We had, and i even think to remember to have initiated that many years ago, already threads fantasizing about this (V5 6000 rebuild Heissluft Thread :)). Original thread seems lost, maybe during forum migration.


    In any case, the old Mandela saying come true once again: It always seemed impossible until its done.


    I will definitely consider a buy, please let us know more.


    @Goldleader: You would have made a great german citizen. Finding the 'grain of salt' in everything great is our superskill! (nowadays even with providing a practivcally working solution/not unsustainable fantasy)

  • First of all awesome work as always Anthony and would be great if you might decide to start offering some numbers of your reworked cards.


    Personally I think could come out as a good thing even for those who are afraid of escalating prices for the true V56k as a collector item like Gold leader (no offence, just refering to your point) as this would give those a possibility to get their card who are just interested in the speed of the v56k for gaming. So maybe it would allow gamers and collectors to stay with their card of interest.

  • Sounds all fascinating and all, but it has to be affordable for all and with the current prices the original Voodoo5 6000's are going for or left alone common production cards, it's pure madness, they are all barely feasible, not everyone is rich or very wealthy that have mountains of coin to back them up, for the rich and wealthy it's very easy to say it's not an issue, I been there myself when I had a good job before i got ill and disabled.


    At several 3dfx communities I am part of, many aren't waiting for people to remake cards and make major earnings from them, the prices will always be high and that is always a major issue, which will only get worse in time, because people are basically accepting these retarded amounts, if a card sells for 2000 euros and people buy them, it means more will sell for this similar amount or more all because these people pay up for it, this ruins the value of everything below these cards.


    But what would be better is to bring the old values back so everyone can enjoy this hobby once more.
    That is what most people actually want, so it's not exclusive for the rich and wealthy, greed is always a dangerous thing, a thing I prefer to avoid at all times, especially from the communities I am running and the ones I am part of.


    Then again seeing people do awesome rebuilds their old 3dfx PC's with all the traditional cards like Voodoo2's & 3's for example, that does most people pride, because it's all they have from what them golden 3dfx years gave them to remember, thus it's those cards that give them the most and best of memories and that is something even a remake can't give in return, basically because remakes don't share that history at all, they are just a remake and nothing else.


    And that is the perspective they give to many people I am connected to, and I too see it like this.
    Also and other issue is that these remakes will make all other cards other people have collected over the years as worthless to not relevant or not even interesting or even worse, also something I am hoping won't happen.


    That is a danger I am hoping that won't escalate and of course some of you won't agree with that, I can truly understand for those that don't have funding issues and all, as some tend to envy such projects, point being they are cool to see happening but I certainly don't envy them, sorry I have too many reasons not to :)


    So in the end I do even feel guilty for bringing this up this entire thread, after the several of dm's I got of the situation (not from here), it's a very stressing and sensitive subject to discuss in public as that it can be quite an issue for some ?(


    Hereby I am hoping it won't be much of an issue in the end, my only goal is to preserve what 3dfx gave us the memories from back then and seeing people rebuilds those memories is to me more golden than these so called remakes.


    As a 3dfx friend of mine told me in one of the 3dfx communities:


    The idea of resurrecting the older cards was a good idea, but it ends in a massively overpriced moneymaking.

    And they have a strong valid point, nothing more to it.


    That is all I have to say about it really, sorry if I upset anyone, not my intention I just care for the other people more not.

  • Well I am 25% German , my mother's parents were German so yea some of it is there alles gut junge xD (New Kids --> Gerrie ist Krass)

    Last Kracht Wagen fahren..engh enghh xD

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=090oBAO8KxI


    My German spelling is plain atrocious lmao

  • i'm thinking on how to produce considerable amount of these cards, but i don't want to invest much in production. so, most likely, i'll keep slowly make assembly by myself, about 1 card in week or two. until i get bored. my interest in making something new, not to do the robot job, pls accept.


    maybe i'll inqure pcb manufacturer on partially assembled cards. i'm not happy to assemble everything by myself. so final price mainly depends on organization of assembly process.

    All good man you do you, no one is forcing you on what to do or what not to do, personally I prefer original cards as do many others I know and are friended to for many odd years, but hey if you can make people happy with your work that is a nice achievement and I am sure there are some people out there that will gladly be interested to buy these cards when you think they are ready to be sold :)

    Each to their own ya know, it's just not my kind of thing, but I am glad there are some here that are interested.
    That shows you have not done all of this work for noting, it is after all a good cause to that extent.

    My only reason I made the post here that this has been a long discussed topic at the VA forums when it comes to rebuilding a Voodoo5 6000 many rumor posts were made, but none ever made it out to a reality, but yours on the other hand, well you did make it a reality and that is quite something to have a good discussion about, hence this thread :)

    My apologies for nudging ahead of you, it's that I saw the posts at Facebook and well I had to share them here, just to prove the VA people that this project isn't as dead as many have thought it was :bonk::topmodel:

    And now that you have actually accomplished this, well that is kind of like world news in that sense, but it should not be the main topic in every community either, it's great it's done I just hope it doesn't make other topics not relevant, it's hard to make everyone happy in the end and it's hard to keep interests on even levels as well.

    Rock on and stay safe.

  • All good man you do you, no one is forcing you on what to do or what not to do, personally I prefer original cards as do many others I know and are friended to for many odd years, but hey if you can make people happy with your work that is a nice achievement and I am sure there are some people out there that will gladly be interested to buy these cards when you think they are ready to be sold :)

    my cards have their own advantages. moreover, they are assembled from only new or nos components and i'm offering 12 month warranty.

  • my cards have their own advantages. moreover, they are assembled from only new or nos components and i'm offering 12 month warranty.

    That isn't much since 3dfx offered 10 years most cards are over 20 years and they still function, rather disappointing since your cards won't be cheap, despite that they don't carry the same valuable history the originals do have, especially sheer amount of years the original cards have in advance.
    No offense, but the reality makes this rather a thin choice.

    All the other threads people are making of their 3dfx systems, 3dfx cards & 3dfx experiences, they all seem no longer relevant due to these these projects of yours, i see that as a potential issue at hand.... :/

    In the past there were similar things, I just hope this one won't be as bad, this place does deserve something nice for once.


    Regards,

    Gold Leader.

  • There have been only positive feedbacks except from one, don't let one voice speak for the entire board or the community.


    One thing aside: The 10 warranty from 3dfx was a total joke as the company didn't even last that long. The components, especially the eletrolytic caps are going to be a serious issue in the upcoming future and I personally love, that your redesign uses todays possibilities when it comes to building a clean, efficient power supply.

  • +1, don´t take one statement too serious, please.

    Hobbies like ours rely on invention and investment, like many other hobbies do as well. IMHO, it is shortsighted to be against this kind of cool experiments, as they also build up crucial knowledge to fix the original cards. Backfire´s resurrection and repair clearly (and scientifically) now analyzed that the end of useable lifetime for all unmodified Voodoo (VSA100 and others) cards is close. Furthermore, improvement like his new power circuitry help preserve original cards and might in conjunction with Anthony´s solution result in even better future circuitry. And as in any other hobby, that depends on real experts showing up, analyzing and solving (!) problems. Imagine, no old timer car would still be around, if one would rely on original spare parts (i am not talking about brake pads here, but even hand carved cylinders/blocks) and in-depth reconstruction and engineering.

    In terms of pricing, the V5 6k would have been the absolute flagship of this time and the V5 55k was 250€ (500DM) in stores. Price for a 6k back in 2000 was supposed 600$ (with 2% inflation correction over 20y that would be 910€). A price of 1500€ for Anthonys cards today is thus cheap and in my eyes totally justified for expertise, materials and especially with regard to what collectors pay for the originals.

    And in the end, as GAT always points out: It´about the 3dfx gaming experience, which unarguably can´t be guaranteed without surgical help/improvements anymore without risking the originals.

  • Of course 1500 Eur would be cheap for the rich people that can afford such things then again these cards have no real history or any real improvements over the current ones we are using now the VSA-100's they use are also about 20 years old many tend to forget that new PCB or not it won't make much of a difference, despite the suffering 33Mhz PCI bus they have to deal with also the fact most mobo's have the AGP slot that does support 66Mhz bus or even 133Mhz if AGP x4 could of been fixed, then I would see that as a nice improvement.

    That 33 Mhz bus will cripple the living shites out of the 6000 remake plus the VSA-100 is just fine as a 2D /3D rendering chip I don't see the actual point of running it alongside a GeForce or Radeon or what ever else, seems rather pointless of the so called redesign, somethings you have not done right then again no one is perfect ;)

    Main reason why 3dfx chose the AGP slot was that it supports the 66Mhz by default as AGP x2 slots went.
    And most mobo's didn't have 66Mhz PCI slots they were all 33Mhz, it may not matter much for a V5 5500 but a 6000 is something entirely difference.

    And to use as a 3D Add on just seems like a pointless effort, it's great you make these copies but not all of it makes proper sense and personally I don't see any improvements at all either.

    it's great everyone in my thread is happy and all that is fine but yea I am that one person that doesn't agree with these redesigns as they don't really offer anything new or left alone improved.

    As for those random sites most of them lack proper knowledge or understanding of how these cards would work anyways, they are ideal for new gen crap but 3dfx is just a different league it's self.

    Then again not everything is perfect on what I am seeing here and I don't give a damn if anyone agrees with me or not, my verdict stands ;)
    these are interesting designs yes true but they are by far from being a holy grail or affordable solution for everyone , only the rich and wealthy can ever afford these things and that puts everything else to shame, they are remakes aka fake Voodoo's not even real ones maybe 750 Euro may be a more affordable amount then again I would not even give 1 Euro for them all because I don't see the entire point yet, it is indeed overpriced money making in the end, for something is is not even original or left alone lacking a major history.

    Also I am truly amazed that most of you can't manage to see it from an other perspective, interesting behavior, yet very disappointing.

    Also the values of the originals can be brought down I don't see the point in overpricing them either.
    that can all be changed if people were less greedy maybe... it can change, anything can, then 3dfx can be enjoyed by all sorts of people instead of them wealthy types, this still remains a large problem, several hundred of my Argentinean friends would agree to this point.

    There have been only positive feedbacks except from one, don't let one voice speak for the entire board or the community.


    One thing aside: The 10 warranty from 3dfx was a total joke as the company didn't even last that long. The components, especially the eletrolytic caps are going to be a serious issue in the upcoming future and I personally love, that your redesign uses todays possibilities when it comes to building a clean, efficient power supply.


    That person has a name, critics are aloud and I for one see many things wrong with these so called remakes.
    Then again it seems many of you tend not to see that no one is perfect ;)

  • To not share your perspective and opinion is disappointing? Was this a good point to come up with?


    You made your point and critics clear more than once already, but maybe you might think about accepting that some are paying credit to Anthony's work and skill or are even interested in buying one.


    Anthony didn't copy the V56k, but created his own interpretation like he did with other projects before. What means there is no mistaken with the original Voodoo cards.

  • I think original cards and let's call em "replicas", like replicas of old cars, can exist in the same universe parallel with no harm to each other. A discussion about money isn't going anywhere I fear, you simply have different points of view on this matter.


    In my opinion it's better concentrating on the technical work that's done here in this project. It's really a very impressive thing to construct such a card, respect Anthony - awesome work here :thumbup:


    Looks to me like a new interpretation of a 6000 rather than a remake. I like the idea of this card as an additional Glide Accelerator addon card like a Voodoo2 with VGA Loop Connection.

    Just a thought - have you considered designing it as a PCI Express x1 card? Is that possible with another bridge chip? Then you eliminate the bandwith bottleneck legacy PCI and there are plenty Platforms out there you could use the card with the latest XP32 drivers (socket 754/939/AM2/AM3, 775 11xx and so on). And some of them can also be used with good old Win9x :)

    Somehow I 'd really like to see a PCIe Voodoo xD

  • To not share your perspective and opinion is disappointing? Was this a good point to come up with?


    You made your point and critics clear more than once already, but maybe you might think about accepting that some are paying credit to Anthony's work and skill or are even interested in buying one.


    Anthony didn't copy the V56k, but created his own interpretation like he did with other projects before. What means there is no mistaken with the original Voodoo cards.

    Somethings need to be repeated then again this being my topic, I have my reasons for it.

    At least I have at least the guts to say something against this greedy monkey business going round, everyone else seems to be too afraid to say anything against something they actually would deprive, whelp here it is then, welcome to my world.

    If it was skill and amazing, I would be like yea it's actually quite fantastic,but it's not enough to what I would see as an actual improvement.
    Most of you here are blinded by coin, and the cheap value of 1500 euros... that is rather stand and hard to get but oke if that keeps your mind ina straight line, it is your choice to make.

    It's not the first time I seen something like this being flung around, also I ain't really impressed at all, I am more impressed for those that actually make time repairing the original cards even from the dead, that is to me a greater importance, if you stop using the originals they will die faster as their capacitors will dry out, wise words from the 3dfx master Hank Semenec himself.


    But hey I can't tell everyone to agree with me, not going to never have in the first place, it's no sense in the end, most of you only hear what you want to hear or see what you only want to believe is true on your own behalf, there is a word for that... but I won't use it here.

    if one doesn't agree with any of you they are all of a sudden a MAJOR THREAT aka a RED DOT TARGET, but that is not how the world works, you can't like everything, you can't agree with everything either, but the opposite just the same.

    You all like this project and that is fine I truly respect that, but I don't see it all as a great thing, sorry I really do not.

    Everyone else within the 3dfx community seems no longer relevant, only this Anthony guy, he is the center of a attention and that isn't right either it's all a matter of time on how this ball will roll out more or not.

  • @GoldLeader,

    The price is more then Fair!

    let me do a little (fully incorrect) Calculation:

    150 -200 Euro PCB

    50 Euro 4 GPUs

    160 - 200 Euro Memory (16 Chips)

    150 - 300 Euro the other Parts (plx, Caps, etc)

    500 Euro 20h/25 Euro Building / Testing the Card (if that is enough I dont know where you live, here in Germany you would get payed much more for that kind of work)


    1250 - 1300 Euro Building one Card alone without the Engineering, Prototyping etc.


    Do never ever come again with that low Price. I dont know how many hours of work he has put in that. but its much more then he could ever get back.


    yes only People with a decent Job, and a little Money can buy these Cards. There you are right.


    But the Price is much better then a original v5 6k.


    I dont care, if it is a original Card or a new one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOWLElJCi60


    PCI gives you Freedom, more Bords, more supported Platforms, no less Power.


    I just want to use it for GAMES!!!


    Anthony


    The most Mainboards out of that Time comes with one PCI Bus.

    PCI 32bit/33mhz with c.a. 133mb/s (real less)

    PCI -> IDE/SCSI Controller, Gigabit Lan, USB 2.0, Sound.


    Go on a LAN Party (after Corona / H5N8) and play some Games with Friends.

    Copy a game to the local disk and play at the same time ---> you are out with a PCI Card ;)


    The normal PCI is full. A PCI-X @ 32bit/66 mhz Slots gives you 266mb/s for your GPUs.

    Even if you use more then one Slot, there is enough space for everyone ;)