Backfire's Voodoo 4 4500 & 5 5500 - DVI Upgrade

  • DVI upgrade for Voodoo 5 5500 PCI und Voodoo 4 4500 AGP

    Stand 28.07.2023


    Nachdem Physikant diesen Anregenden Thread eröffnet hatte, kurz davor ein Forenmember mit annähernd gleichem Anliegen an mich herantrat, hat sich hier, wie auch bei mir eine gewisse Eigendynamik und auch Interesse entwickelt - diese Möglichkeit wahrzunehmen.

    Die Erweiterung der Voodoo 5 5500 PCI mit einem DVI Ausgang.

    Kurz: Es funktioniert. Durchgeführt und getestet an meinen eigenen V5 5500 PCI und Voodoo 4 4500 AGP

    Anfangs hatte ich diese Erweiterung nicht sonderlich ernst genommen, weil der Mehrwert darin nicht erkennbar war. Aber was soll schon Vernunft bei einem unvernünftigen Hobby. ^^

    Die Karten werden definitiv aufgewertet durch mehr Flexibilität und Kontrast. Auf meinem TFT ist ein höherer Kontrast wahrnehmbar. Ob das an den Karten oder am Monitor Input liegt vermag ich noch nicht zu beurteilen.

    English

    After Physikant opened this inspiring thread, and shortly before a forum member approached me with almost the same request, a certain momentum and interest developed here, as well as in me - to take advantage of this opportunity.

    The expansion of the Voodoo 5 5500 PCI with a DVI output.

    In short: it works. Performed and tested on my own V5 5500 PCI and V4 4500 AGP.

    At first I didn't take this extension very seriously, because the added value was not apparent. But what is reason in an unreasonable hobby? ^^

    The card is definitely upgraded by more flexibility and contrast. On my TFT, a higher contrast is perceptible. Whether this is due to the cards or the monitor input, I cannot yet judge.


    -


    [Bilder von der fertiggestellten Bestückung]

    -


    [Wenn Vintage dann richtig. :) Sandra Kümmert sich um das Flashen des EEproms per 51/4 Diskette am externen Laufwerk]

    -


    [Das entsprechend vorbereitete Boot-Flash-Tool wird geladen]

    -


    [Das Bios ist installiert]


    [Auch das am Anfang "out of sync" gelegene Spiel Chasm läuft einwandfrei]

    -


    [Eine voller bestückte Karte sieht auch tatsächlich schöner aus :saint:]


    Das Slotbracket ist auch bald fertig und die Karte ist komplett.

    Hier ist das Info Dokument mit Bauteilen und Positionen.

    English

    The slot bracket will also be ready soon and the card is complete.

    Here is the info document with components and positions.


    Voodoo 5 5500 PCI

    :!:Rev. 2.1 :!:

    V5 DVI Upgrade Rv2.1.pdf


    Voodoo 4 4500 AGP

    Rev. 1.1

    Rev. 1.2

    :!:Rev. 1.3 :!:

    V4 DVI Upgrade Rv1.3.pdf


    Voodoo 4 4500 PCI

    :!:Rev. 1.0 :!:

    V4 PCI DVI Upgrade Rv1.0.pdf

    - Backfire -


    Acknowledgements:

    Physikant (Who pushed it.)

    CryptonNite (For technical support.)

    Gold Leader (For providing his Original V5 Mac to investigate it.)
    Anthony (For helpful hints)

    ciacara72 (For helping finding parts and technical tips.)

    SK1 (For Finding closer Infos, Links Websites.)

    Chosen_One (For providing Bios ROMs on his Website.)

    Löschzwerg  bschicht86  Bier.jpg  Lotosdrache (For technical advice and sensible questions)

    Xion (For providing his very own Original V4 Mac for investigation and parts analysis.)

  • That Bios Tho --> Upgraded by Backfire Jan 2022 I call HAX jk :topmodel:


    But nicely one tho and I was happy to help with my V5 PCI Mac , also major thanks for all your input Backfire <3

    And I never would of though to see the day that one of my cards would help with a project like this. just grand :respekt: :spitze:
    Also I would like to thank everyone else that help participate in this lovely project, it could not of been done without any of you <3

    Edited 2 times, last by Gold Leader (January 18, 2022 at 4:49 PM).

  • Dear Gold Leader ,

    without your card we would not have had a corrective. By allowing me to do everything necessary to gain all the knowledge that is important to make the project safe to rebuild.

    :thumbup::saint:

    - Backfire -

    Well happy to have been of help here then if there are any other kind of things I can help with, you let me know anytime :)
    Event hough you'd think there would be more original V5 PCI Mac's around this community right?

    Unless not many people have these anymore, would be weird, right.

  • V5 PCI Mac have always been a little bit more expensive than PC ones. I always thought about buying one but this will save me a lot of money (same for V4 AGP). :spitze:

    Ich werde mich von keinem einzzzigen Prozzzessor trennen.
    Jedoch lockt es mich beinahe, ihn Dir zu überlassen, nur um zu sehen, wie er Dich in den Wahnsinn treibt :evil:

    Meine Begehren

  • Was für eine wunderbare Kreatur hast du geschaffen, Backfire. Ich erinnere mich an diesen v5 5500 pci, bei dem Sie alle feuerroten Kondensatoren ausgetauscht hatten, er war schon vorher schön, aber jetzt sieht er umwerfend aus. Das benutzerdefinierte Bios verleiht ihm wirklich den ultimativen Touch von Klasse. Wenn ich darüber nachdenke, wie das alles passiert ist, bin ich der Meinung, dass nichts zufällig passiert. Einschließlich der Reparatur der Grafikkarte von Gold Leader. Unglaublich!:respekt:

    Ich freue mich, einen, wenn auch nur kleinen, Beitrag zu diesem Projekt geleistet zu haben.;)

    Da Sie die neue Halterung für die Grafikkarte bauen, können Sie bitte eine Zeichnung mit den genauen Messungen, in Millimetern (oder Hundertstel eines Millimeters) der dvi und vga Löcher/Löcher, wenn Sie so genau wie möglich, mit allen möglichen Achsabständen und Referenzen, ich danke Ihnen teilen.

    Nochmals herzlichen Glückwunsch Backfire! :spitze:


    What a wonderful Creature you have created Backfire. I remember this v5 5500 pci, that you had replaced all of the Fire Red coloured capacitors, it was beautiful before but now it looks stunning. The custom Bios really gives it the ultimate touch of Class. When I think about how it all happened, lost and I believe that nothing happens by accident. Including the repair of Gold Leader's video card. Unbelievable! :respekt:

    Glad to have contributed, even if in a small way, to this project.;)

    Since you are building the new bracket for the video card, can you please share a drawing with the precise measurements, in millimeters ( or hundredths of a millimeter) of the dvi and vga holes/holes, if you can as precise as possible, with all possible center distances and references, I thank you.

    Congratulations again Backfire! :spitze:

  • V5 PCI Mac have always been a little bit more expensive than PC ones. I always thought about buying one but this will save me a lot of money (same for V4 AGP). :spitze:

    Well you guys have been friends to me for years now if there is anything Ic an do I'm all in for it my V5 PCI Mac aka Green 02 is surely up for anything he has seen many battles in his life haha :topmodel: xD

    Green leader was my Voodoo5 6000, sadly he ain't here anymore Murfisor made a run for it with it, painful memories, so for the good of things I was willing to let Backfire do his thing, he knows what he is doing after all and Green 02 was surely the part he needed to complete his research and now more V5 PCI's can get safe conversions to V5 PCI Mac's :)

    Next step is would it be possible to Flash from PC back to Mac, just for those that want to try this out as well?
    Not me but just in general speaking.
    Also those that own V5 AGP x4's these too can be modified to V5 5500 AGP MAC's would be fun to try out and no I don't have a card, if I did well you can all guess what I would let do to it right :spitze:

    For the aid of such a project to me it's been worth the ride, we all did it for SCIENCE! xD

    What a wonderful Creature you have created Backfire. I remember this v5 5500 pci, that you had replaced all of the Fire Red coloured capacitors, it was beautiful before but now it looks stunning. The custom Bios really gives it the ultimate touch of Class. When I think about how it all happened, lost and I believe that nothing happens by accident. Including the repair of Gold Leader's video card. Unbelievable! :respekt:

    Glad to have contributed, even if in a small way, to this project.;)

    Since you are building the new bracket for the video card, can you please share a drawing with the precise measurements, in millimeters ( or hundredths of a millimeter) of the dvi and vga holes/holes, if you can as precise as possible, with all possible center distances and references, I thank you.

    Congratulations again Backfire! :spitze:

    Yea well my card been to Backfire twice now and again he succeeded, well of course he did I mean he cured like 160 Vodooo5 cards now or so where of 16 were Voodoo5 6000's maybe even more? Yea we are all in the safest of hands here, nothing to worry for friendo <3

    Our community has a bunch of healthy minds all working together to work out such things, never thought we'd get this far tho, left alone Anthony making us new 3dfx Vudu's x D isn't that something <3

    Yea I think we'll be fine for many years to come thanks to all the helpful smart minded people keeping our cards well maintained and alive for many years to come.
    The Force is strong in this place, it's just a tad stronger now, the 3dfx Alliance will keep growing I hope.

    Remember The Force Will Be With You, Always <3
    Jedi Master, Gold Leader / Obi Wan KenobiV6K.

  • Hmm Backfire it seems you used a DVI-I instead ofa DVI-D the original cards have, not sure if this too can cause any issues.

    Original card

    And the one you modified with DVI-I instead:

    Not that I think it matters much, but yea I thought I'd mention this, it's the slight difference I just noticed now.

  • That is nice. now you can use all DVI Cables. But maybe you should also put cables for the analog output to the DVI if you use that connector?

    Quote

    The DVI connector on a device is given one of three names, depending on which signals it implements:

    DVI-I (integrated, combines digital and analog in the same connector; digital may be single or dual link)

    DVI-D (digital only, single link or dual link)

    DVI-A (analog only)

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm…ector_Types.svg

  • Gold Leader

    Well - this connector is used because of the compatibility to the cables. The four sockets arranged in a square, which otherwise transmit analogue signals, are not connected to the card anyway.

    Dear Obi, it was indeed a strange and at the same time pleasing coincidence that your card came in just at this time. In the years since I have been doing these repairs, this is perhaps the 10th V5 PCI MAC here for repair.

    As I mentioned before, I didn't took much importance to DVI in the beginning. However, that has changed and we are all riding the wave of enthusiasm and I am doing what I can.


    Bier.jpg

    You are right. There is no analogue picture signal at the DVI connection.

    - Backfire -

  • Geht diese Modifikation eigentlich nur bei den PCI bzw. den AGP4x Varianten oder auch bei der "normalen" V5 AGP?

    Ich finde gerade wenn man halbwegs moderne Monitore nutzt, ist ein digitales Bild echt besser.

    Voodoo: Athlon XP-2800+ auf MSI KT3-Ultra 2, 1GB DDR, Voodoo 5 5500 AGP, SB Audigy Platinum EX, Win98SE
    Voodoo²: Athlon XP-2400+ auf MSI K7T266Pro2, 1GB DDR, Nvidia GF3TI500 und Voodoo 2 SLI, SB Audigy 2ZS, Win98SE

    Mainsys: Ryzen 5-3600 auf Asus Prime B350-Plus, 32GB DDR4 3200, RTX2070, Win 11

    Midrange: 2x Xeon 3,2GHz Dell Precision 450, 3GB DDR, ATI HD3850 AGP, SB X-Fi mit Frontpanel, WinXP

  • Evlt kann man es mit einer extra Platine nachrüsten. Allerdings heisst dass dann sehr viele dünne Drähte ziehen, wenn überhaut alles notwendige auf der normalen V5 5500 zu lötpads geführt wird....

  • The Problem is not just the PCB for the DVI transmitter chip. This can be done quite quickly.

    Basically, the DVI-transmitter takes 12 data lines and 2 Sync signals, HSYNC and VSYNC.

    The data lines are shared between the VSA100 chips (and are used every 32 lines by a different chip, that's SLI ;) ). The sync signal seems to be coming from the Atmel controller in the top center of the board.

    2 requirements have to be met that a DVI-mod of the regular AGP is possible:

    The digital data lines from the VSA100s have to be connected together and accessible.

    The Atmel controller has to have the correct firmware to give the sync signals for a digital SLI mode.

    I can not check these requirements, since I only own a V5500PCI.

    If many people are interested in this (more than 10!) and someone is willing to send me his V5500AGP for measuring (I sold mine years ago ...), I'm willing to try this. But I doubt it is worth the effort, since the community is not that big anymore...

    Not to mention that a modded card would look pretty ugly, since there are 14 wires running from the backside of the card to the mod-board that would be mounted on the frontside top left corner ....

    Another mention: I don't see why this would not be possible on a V5 6k if the above requirements are met ... But I doubt thats the case, since routing these 12 lines between the 4 VSA100s would be even more work on an already pretty full card. More layers? Anthony? Anyone?

    Edited once, last by Physikant (January 20, 2022 at 12:27 PM).

  • Alliance2000

    Sure you can connect some wires to the analog signal lines and connect them to the DVI analog pins. But in my opinion, it would hurt the mod twofold:

    - It looses the authenticity that my mod has. I selected the components to be just the same as on the V5500MAC, so you are basically converting a PCI to a MAC. Yes you can stick huge fans and more modern memory and whatnot on the V5500, but then you loose the point of owning hardware from that period...

    - It would look just ugly, having 5 wires running from the VGA to the DVI. Yes, it can be done well and look clean somehow, but it would still be visible.

    What's the point of having the analog lines there if you already have a working VGA connector on the board?

  • Mittlerweile sind einige auf DVI zu erweiternde Voodoos bei mir eingetroffen.

    Damit die Arbeit nicht in "Arbeit" ausartet, habe ich gerne die Idee von Nilpferd aufgegriffen und er lässt mir DVI Slotbrackets zukommen.

    Wenn ich gegenrechne das ich ca 90min brauche um einen sauberen DVI Ausbruch maßgerecht per "frei Hand" mit Feile und Bohrer und Laubsäge zu fertigen ist es wesentlich günstiger seine schönen Slotbrackets anzunehmen und zu verbauen.

    Es gibt 2 Versionen.

    Eine Single und eine Dual.

    Hier eine Impression eines DUAL Brackets, ein Sample aus Kunststoff, das ich gestern von ihm bekommen habe um die Maßhaltigkeit zu prüfen.

    Die aus Metall gehen in Kürze in die Fertigung und wenn Ihr mir Eure Karten schickt lass mich wissen ob ihr ein Single oder eine Dual Bracket haben möchtet.

    Denn auf Handfertigung habe ich echt kein Bock mehr. ?(

    So Long

    - Backfire -

  • Hallo Backfire, Nilpferd hat eine wirklich gute Arbeit geleistet! :spitze::respekt:

    Ich empfehle das Dual-Slot-Bracket, zumindest für die voodoo5 5500, da sie als lange Grafikkarte ohne Backplate dazu neigt, sich zu verbiegen. Die Dual-Slot-Halterung erhöht die Hebelwirkung der Grafikkarte, wodurch das Gewicht auf das Gehäuse übertragen wird.

    Nilpferd, wenn Sie können, könnten Sie die Programmierdatei für die Laserschneidmaschine zur Verfügung stellen? Ich würde gerne einige Muster aus satiniertem Edelstahl, poliertem Edelstahl und vielleicht auch aus Titan anfertigen, alle mit einer Dicke von 0,85/0,9 mm. Ich danke Ihnen.:)