Nuclear secrets: Netherlands nuclear meltdown narrowly averted and then covered up

    Nine years ago things could of gone pretty nuclear over here:
    http://weblog.greenpeace.org/nuclear-reacti…erlands_nu.html

    [Blockierte Grafik: http://weblog.greenpeace.org/nuclear-reaction/petten_nuclear_reactor.jpg]

    "There is an extra safety system by convection cooling for which the operators had to open a valve, but the control room was dark. When they reached for a torch that should have been there, it had been taken away by a colleague to work under his car. Trying their luck the operators put the valve of the convection cooling in what they thought was the ‘open’ position. But then the lights came back on and the operators discovered they had actually closed the back-up convection cooling system. Had the power failure lasted longer it would have meant meltdown and a major disaster. "

    "They resorted to ‘trying their luck’. In a nuclear reactor."


    Yeah it's true then I read this, which was probably the worst:

    "Let’s go over that again. They came incredibly close to a nuclear meltdown (remember what one of those is?) at a Dutch nuclear reactor in 2001. The authorities covered it up and lied about it."

    They just lied to the country, Holland is like Ukraine really, when comparing on how they kept such a thing as a secret lol.

    Just imagine it:

    Comerade! Comrade! My arm looks funny why is this happening???
    It's the radiation comrade, welcome to your new f*cked up life :topmodel:

    6 Mal editiert, zuletzt von Gold Leader (4. Dezember 2009 um 12:43)

    That's really the best quote, rofl:

    "They resorted to 'trying their luck'. In a nuclear reactor."

    Reading the whole story really makes you wonder... I guess the operators simply panicked, when the emergency system for the research reactor didn't kick in..

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    2 Mal editiert, zuletzt von GrandAdmiralThrawn (4. Dezember 2009 um 13:10)

    Zitat von SK1

    ROFL, they built a Homer! :spitze:

    [Blockierte Grafik: http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/7352/homersimpsonvattenfall.jpg]

    Well Sk1 Here in the Netherlands when we heard about this so called " Nuclear Secret" We were kinda shocked if that meltdown had taken place ... I probably was not typing this message, the same if Germany was Nuked to death by The Americans in 1945, you would not of been typing that same message as well eh? :adsh:

    As such things go around, we do take these acts extremely serious and it should not be joked around with, who knows if there is much more at stake which most of us do think there is. :|

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Gold Leader (6. Dezember 2009 um 13:19)

    Why is this referenced with Chernobyl ?

    If you experience a "normal" meltdown, it does exactly what it says: it melts down. In the normal western world, the core should (!) just float in to the containment underneath the reactor itselfs... it's a desaster but not anywhere near to what happened in Chernobyl.
    I was studying Chernobyl for a while since I was very interested in what happened.... and all of a sudden it looks more than an oxyhydrogen explosion inside the reactor than a normal meltdown caused just by overtemperature.
    If you analyse parts from inside the reactor shelter (yes, you can go in there, and there is sunlight coming trough the walls as well as water, and birds are flying around !) you can see, that it wasn't a slow ongoing overheating.

    By the way, something like that happened long time ago at Three Mile Island in the States, where they had a particular meltdown of a reactor ;)

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von OutOfRange (5. Dezember 2009 um 22:46)

    Well a meltdown is just something you'd prefer to evade what happened in the Ukraine was a meltdown of it's worst kind and this could of been the outcome, the dutch athorities lied about this in 2K1 by keeping it a secret.

    "Let’s go over that again. They came incredibly close to a nuclear meltdown (remember what one of those is?) at a Dutch nuclear reactor in 2001. The authorities covered it up and lied about it."

    Since isn't keeping a secret, living a lie... :rolleyes:

    3 Mal editiert, zuletzt von Gold Leader (6. Dezember 2009 um 13:19)

    See, the western world believes always, that their nuclear technology is superior to the russians... forget about that, it simply isn't because of exactly that arrogance :rolleyes:

    If you take in a count what happend at the Vattenfall Power Plants not so long ago, all the accidents happend in La Hague, all the bad storys about Sellafield (should I say Windscale ?) and also what happend at Three Miles Islands years before the disaster in Chernobyl.

    Clearly, what happend in Chernobyl was the worst case of a meltdown, absolutely right. The only thing is just the rest of the environment. Western containments are (or should be) built in a way, that they can keep all the bad stuff away from outside, if something horribly goes wrong.
    Did you know that they had to dig a big cavern under the Chernobyl reactor compartment just to keep the shit away from the water underneath ? If the bad stuff ever reached the water... forget about most of the region there, it's a bit unfair to say that, but we we're lucky the way it went.
    I guess this is what makes me sleep a little bit better, the technology itself and the arrogance it is made with makes it not really superior to the clearly unsafe ones... but there is still more material around keeping it away from us ;)


    In my opinion, we actually still need nuclear power plants to keep our society up and running, the world is still growing like hell und therefore needs more electrical energy than ever. I'm also feeling uncertain about politics hiding bad things from me... but I believe it's not just the story with the nuclear stuff. I think if you know what exactly happens behind the curtain, you better wont.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von OutOfRange (6. Dezember 2009 um 10:33)

    Yeah true, sometimes it's not best to know everything, but on the other side lieing isn't the best option either.

    What I care about most is that living in a place like this country and then such things take place in a very ultra modern country, meh, makes me realise how unreliable the EU really is, if the same happened near a place where you are living you'd be running shitlessl, so hereby it's easy to talk about something that has not taken place in your area, I damn sure know what a melt down is as my dad used to be an engineer in several powerplants this is just pure basics man, anything is possible when a Melt Down takes place and that reactor that almost had a meltdown wasn't a very modern one either, it was also one from the early 60's

    As not being a modern reactor, a meltdown in it could of been very bad.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown

    Nuclear power plants are not really needed all they do is generate power as where a Hydro plant could do as well, there are plenty alternatives for the EU, we have tons of water why not use it to generate power instead, this could save alot of issues like meltdowns and such.

    Heh not the only one here that is against Nuclear Power plant I prefer that all just shut down imedietly.

    Here some more info about the one in Petten:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petten_nuclear_reactor

    "The high flux reactor in Petten has been in use since 1961. The first criticality was obtained the November 9th, 1961. The reactor was furnished by Allis-Chalmers.
    Its capacity was increased in steps to 45 MW (thermal) by 1970."

    As for it's age, it's very old so even if a meltdown would of occured, results would of been catastrophic, since it's the same age as the one from Chernobyl, Ukraine :thumbdown:

    5 Mal editiert, zuletzt von Gold Leader (6. Dezember 2009 um 13:21)

    Zitat von hutzeputz

    ich melde mal interesse an:

    Wer übersetzt mir mal die thematik? :whistling:^^

    es geht kurz gesagt um fehler im akw ...
    das obere beispiel geht darum, das eine mitarbeiter eine taschenlampe mitgenommen hat um unterm auto zu arbeiten... und die kollegen dann auf gut glueck den Schalter fuer die kuehlung bewegt haben und anstelle von offen haben sie auf zu gestellt ...

    zum glueck ging das licht dann wieder an, und sie haben den fehler bemerkt, sonnst haette es eine katastrophe gegeben ...

    dann folgen noch berichte ueber chernobil, ich bin leider nicht so gut im uebersetzen, daher bitte ich jemanden anders, das ganze noch mal in deutsch zusammmenzu fassen ...
    prost,
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    Zitat von Gold Leader

    "The high flux reactor in Petten has been in use since 1961. The first criticality was obtained the November 9th, 1961. The reactor was furnished by Allis-Chalmers.
    Its capacity was increased in steps to 45 MW (thermal) by 1970."

    As for it's age, it's very old so even if a meltdown would of occured, results would of been catastrophic, since it's the same age as the one from Chernobyl, Ukraine :thumbdown:

    There are so many old nuclear plants in use today, its nearly meaningless to count them all :(
    But as I can see in the description, this is just an experimental nuclear reactor (45 MW is also absolutely rubbish for comercial use)... I guess there was something like that in Switzerland as well a very long time ago... hummmm

    Auf Deutsch (Zusammengefasst, nicht übersetzt !)

    In Petten, Holland steht ein (bzw. es sind zwei) Forschungsreaktoren, in einem dieser gabs wie oben beschrieben einen Störfall. In diesem Fall wurde (wie eigentlich in fast jedem ernsthaften Störfall bisher) eine Manipulation am Kühlsystem des Reaktors vorgenommen, wobei dieser drohte zu überhitzen.
    Die Regierung hat dies bis anhin verschwiegen, darum gehts eigentlich grundsätzlich: Es werden Informationen vor der Öffentlichkeit vorenthalten. Darüber nervt sich Gold Leader und auch über die Unsicherheiten die von solchen Anlagen ausgehen.

    Ich hab lediglich ein wenig entgegengehalten, dass man dies nicht gleich mit Tschernobyl in Verbindung bringen sollte, was in Tschernobyl geschah, kann auch in jeder westlichen Anlage prinzipiell geschehen: Der Reaktor überhitzt und es kommt zu einer (manachmal teilweisen) Kernschmelze. Die Brennstäbe in der Anlage brechen, der Brennstoff tritt aus und die Sache wird unkontrollierbar, in dem Falle ist der Reaktor nicht mehr zu retten und schmilzt förmlich in den darunterliegenden Teil des Containments.
    Und genau da liegt das einzig positive: Diese Containments sind in der westlichen Welt einiges robuster gebaut als die 2000t Stahlabdeckung über nem RBMK Reaktor im Osten...
    Ich möchte aber trotzdem nicht wissen, was passiert wenn es einmal zu solch einer totalen Kernschmelze kommt, da sich nebenbei sehr viel Wasserstoff bilden kann, was mit Sauerstoff zu Knallgas wird und bei einer Explosion massiven Schaden anrichten kann (dann können wir nur noch hoffen dass das Containment standhält, denn genau das scheint in Tschernobyl im inneren des Reaktors geschehen zu sein).
    Ich hab dann nur einen Querverweis zu anderen Anlagen gezogen, etwa der partiellen Kernschmelze im AKW von Three Mile Island in den Statten, den dauernden Zwischenfällen in der Aufbereitungsanlage von La Hauge oder den Problemen mit Vattenfall Kraftwerken, auch erwähnen sollte man die Anlage Sellafield in England (da findet man bedenkliches unter dem Begriff Windscale) ;) ;)

    Ein klein wenig hat sich natürlich wieder die Grundsatzfrage eingeschlichen, ob Kernkraft überhaupt noch als Energielieferant notwendig ist oder nicht, da sind wir ein wenig geteilter Meinung ;)

    3 Mal editiert, zuletzt von OutOfRange (6. Dezember 2009 um 14:08)

    DANKE!! für die bemühungen.

    also ich finde das Kernenergie nicht notwendig ist. (außer um uns effizient zu zerstören)

    Und um Sellafield was da so alles geschen ist möchte glaube ich keiner so genau wissen.

    Genauso bei der Kernschmelze in den USA wo ja schon passiert ist...

    Ich bin jedenfalls der Meinung das so schlimm keine Situation sein kann das man auf sowas unkontrollierbares zurückgreifen muß.
    (und es ist nicht Kontrollierbar, in keiner Situation, ob problematisch oder unproblematisch)